January 19, 2017 at 1:14 pm #6635
This I’m sure is a delicate subject, but… I’m thinking it’s time to move on and leave the BlitzMax crowed (whats left) behind. Every time I’m on the forum there it seems like I’m dealing with less then stellar individuals. There is a vocal group that is just outright demeaning to Mark and our efforts here. I think that forum is detracting from Monkey 2’s path forward or at least enabling ill will toward Mark and anything not BlitzMax. Perhaps it’s time to close the forum on the BlitzMax site and setup it up to provide current versions of software and any updates. Are any BlitzMax users that are not already here using Monkey 2 likely to use or support Monkey 2? I’m thinking no.
Maybe it is time to consolidate, shed support for BlitzMax and focus on Monkey 2.January 19, 2017 at 1:58 pm #6636
I never used blitzmax nor went on the forum but it would be sad that someone looking for help for blitzmax would lost all the help database a dedicated forum is. It looks like a fine language too..January 19, 2017 at 2:01 pm #6637
I understand and it’s fine, and important in a few ways. The hypothesis is: Monkey 2 is a great language with lot’s of potential and worth investing in. Every good scientist who has a hypothesis doesn’t try to reaffirm that to be true, they look for things that might prove it to be false. And if it stands up to that scrutiny then you’re in a much better position than when you believed in it with just faith.
And the critical scrutiny can also help to highlight and correct flaws too. I’m supporting Monkey 2 but will remain open to hearing all the good and the bad about it. Docs are bad for one, and as I get time I’ll help with that at least 🙂January 19, 2017 at 2:02 pm #6638
It could be archived and past data made available, while closing the forum to anymore new comments. I just think it’s time to move on and as I see it that forum does us more harm then good.January 19, 2017 at 2:11 pm #6639
As far as I am aware BRL does not run the blitz forum.
It does seem a little extreme “x,y,z all said I had green hair. Can’t we expel them and anyone else who is a hair critic?”
The blitz sites are both interesting and engaging with both max, NG and 3d versions of blitz. As well as a number of other lesser programming issues.
Just because someone diss’s your latest thing of beauty is no reason to throw a tantrum about it. And this coming from me who could be called a bit bitter and abrasive about my own monkey2 and Blitz issues. Surely we should be embracing and trying to get things right instead of shutting down stuff because you don’t like it?
Maybe You should find a better way of responding to alternative and differing opinions.
Maybe Monkey2 has a number of things to learn from the Blitz Forum. maybe this is a way to try to open and extend the hand of friendship and not the fist?January 19, 2017 at 2:24 pm #6640
So it’s about me? Maybe you should find the meaning in what I am saying. It’s not about me it’s about control over those using that forum. It’s in general abrasive, unpalatable and bad for business. It looks bad to the outside world and the potential new users we want to attract. That forum is a jungle and needs to be controlled or closed IMHO.
Edit: There should be standards of decency applied there and here. I’m just no longer amused by such vehement personal discourse. We should strive for a professional and courteous environment.January 19, 2017 at 2:35 pm #6641
In your opinion, yes. In mine not. So what when all those guys register here then? Close this forum as well? Forums are discussions boards and sometimes can create discussions about topics you or I don’t like.
Actually I’d prefer Mark would close THIS forum and move everything over there, it’s a pity to see one split after another… 🙁January 19, 2017 at 2:47 pm #6642
I remember when I first started using BlitzMax. there was a lot of bashing of the language. a lot of programmers who were used to BlitzBasic and Blitz3d were complaining about blitzMax that it wasn’t as good or as fast as BlitzBasic or Blitz3D or that it was too complex but but a lot of those naysayers are now praising BlitzMax doing the same complaints to Monkey2. I think a lot of them will change their minds sooner or later and some of them that feel offended by the new language, Marks decisions and have to much pride will not. I have seen some programmers that said that they will move to other Language because of Marks decision, are back.
I personally don’t think that Mark will make another language and that if he keeps the efforts he promised this will be come a great language but only time will tell. And will see a lot of those complainers here sooner or later. I say just give it time.January 19, 2017 at 2:51 pm #6643
You’re right Jesse up to the part where you say Mark won’t do another language. 😉
I guess he will continue to do so till he will at some point has reached his EOL.
He’s a compiler “god”, creating languages is what he’s really great in and I have no doubts there will be another one after Monkey 2. And why not? What bothers me is the split up of the community every time. No doubts he might be alone then with LANGUAGE XYZ in 20 years, maybe he has even created the perfect thing then but no one will notice… 😉January 19, 2017 at 3:19 pm #6644
I am for the idea of putting this all under one roof. It makes sense in many ways not least of which is one forum that can be monitored and controlled. Although some may tolerate what I consider unacceptable forum behavior, many, I am sure find it off putting and unwanted. I would like to see a forum environment that focuses on getting the job done, providing support and sharing ideas. Not the unwanted and at times just nasty free-for-all that takes place at times on the BlitzMax forum.
Don’t get me wrong here. I’m simply pointing out that we ought to keep it civil and within the scope of supporting BRL efforts. I surely do not want what happens on a regular basis on the BlitzMax forums here. I want to contribute and support others and do it in an environment that keeps things civil, on topic and as professional as possible. Before mentioning this I just typically avoid the BlitzMax forums, but when I do comment or start a thread I’m met with just surprisingly negative (put nicely)and personal comments by some. Why should this be? Why is it allowed?
Take AdamStrange comments above. I stated this thread in civil manor, yet he makes it personal. This is no way to respond to me. Ask me what I mean. Don’t make it personal. This spirit of personal attacks should end.January 19, 2017 at 6:56 pm #6645
I’ve wandered on the blitz forum and it looks like a legacy AND live forum.
What I’ve seen on all those discussions about BRL products is that some people are frustrated because they wanted a max3d and now 3d will happen with MX2. Some also don’t want/like a strongly typed language, MX2 is strongly typed and that’s what I like with it! For duck typed I recommend Ruby..
Any comparison with Unity or Godot have no sense for me. If I want to create a clone I use a game engine/constructor (construct2 is great too). If I really want to create and play with maths and programming I must use a fully featured language because the sky will be the limit.
Anyway I like the fact that Mark is posting only constructive and forward-walking posts.
I really hope that kind of discussion won’t take too much place on this MX2 forum. I’m not from the blitz sphere and if I had seen too much posts like that (and like those on the blitz forum) when I started Monkey-x, I don’t know what would have happened but I’m not sure I would be a patreon now..
And.. Mark has to get some fun too!
GOOO Mark! You got the style!January 19, 2017 at 7:21 pm #6647
Remember when Microsoft abandoned VisualBasic 6 and moved on to the .NET platform?
Some guys still hate MS for doing this, even 15 years later. 😉January 19, 2017 at 7:40 pm #6648
I too feel personally assaulted after reading some of that stuff from the less than stellar.
I thought your posts were spot on, well done on the restraint I can only imagine was required to maintain your tact.January 19, 2017 at 8:26 pm #6649
I kind of agree but I think, it being open for public discussion, even on forums that don’t do nothing but bashing, is good for publicity so I don’t think its so bath for the language after all. So people will come and check it out and will decide by themselves. I say just ignore all the negativity and keep chipping away. I am sure not everything is negativity.
Anyway I have faith guys and as long as Mark keeps with this language I will be here. The donations will keep him here as long they are there. If he leaves for another language, I will be here still and will not be moving on. I am 50 and will not be giving him another chance as I am thinking I am getting too old to start with something else, I guess, even if I was much younger. Based on what I have read on the forums. I am thinking Mark is years older than I am and I am thinking he has already considered that possibility as well and hope he takes in consideration the age thing before he starts or plan his next language project. I am thinking this needs to be his best closing show.January 20, 2017 at 12:54 am #6651
Personally I think Monkey 2 has a professional feel. It is the culmination of Marks work over time and if we were to ask him about Monkey 2’s path and other possible languages down the road the answer might be surprising. My limited interaction with Mark off and on forum lead me to believe Monkey 2 is it, the end of the learning curve in designing languages. He has just got so much right with Monkey 2 and I think when you look at where we have come from (Blitz2D/3D, Blitz Plus, BlitzMax and Monkey-X) you can see a stepping stone approach arriving here. I know my own coding skills and experience have matured over time and come into better focus. It’s part of sticking with it, learning form mistakes and listening to others, something that at times seems to be in short supply these days.
In almost all respects Monkey 2 is a seed change form previous BRL languages. As I’ve stated before I think Monkey 2 aims itself at mainstream coders who use java, C/C++ and alike offering them a easy to use language that supplies familiar programming techniques. When it comes to forum etiquette and decorum we need to remember who we are attracting and what they might find disturbing or inviting. The BlitzMax forum, while not all bad, is the antithesis of what I envision for the forum here. Friendly (even passionate) discussion on various subjects is what I would like to see where we set a higher bar and establish what is acceptable forum behavior and what is not. The days of just say anything you like to anyone you wish has got to be ended. I feel it’s time to set the bar and show past BRL users and future users that we are serious and committed to helping, supporting and guiding users in a manor that is acceptable to all. Not the low brow, aggressive and unappealing monster that shows up on the BlitzMax forums.
We have a chance to get it right with the forum here. My view is that most here now seem to be courteous, friendly and on the professional side and that is appealing to me. We have a chance to take ownership and move out those who’s goals and behavior is unacceptable. We have a chance to show the coding world that we are united and committed to maintaining a forum environment that allows all to feel comfortable and give voice to those who might be new or timid. Monkey 2 is blazing a new wonderful path forward for us all and this path has to include a discussion environment that breaks new ground and allows all to feel welcome.
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